new to the forum

[MadAustringer]

Hi all. I have just moved to the Central Coast of California last year from Southern California and I am planning on getting back into falconry after a four or five year hiatus. I am glad to be here and I think the discussion on this forum has been good reading!

Happy Hawkin'
Tom

[chamokane]

Hi, Tom. What type of hawk will you fly?

[MadAustringer]

Hi, Tom. What type of hawk will you fly?

That is the question. See, I do not know whether or not I was OK'd to general class by F&G or not. My life went crazy after my sponsor sent in my activity report, and I moved before I received a response back from F&G. So I could be headed for my fourth year as an apprenticefrus... or not. I called Sacramento and left a message for Gina, but I have not heard back from her yet. I plan to call again on Monday. (I did talk to someone who lead me to believe that the new regs are going to be implimented starting Monday as well.)

As a eleven year old kid, I managed to fly three late imprint Coops for two years before I discovered that I had to have a licence to be doing what I was doing, and released them. (I evnen took one to the vet when I first found them and got him back no questions asked!)

So if I have to start from scratch all over again I will be one frus irate dude! I will do what ever I have to in order to fly again, though.

I got 100% when I took my test, and I should not have to do it a second time as it is supposed to be on record. So I guess ether way it wont be the end of the world.

To answer your question, longwings hold no special appeal for me as a hunting partner (but they are cool ans heck), unlike shortwings and broadwings which really have always completely turned me on. After I hear back from F&G and I know what my options are, I will start thinking about which exact species and sex of bird to start building perches and facilities for.

What are you flying right now?

[preacher]

Hope it all works out for you, I understand the draw to fly broad/short wings. If you have your general will you fly a passage, imprint,chamber raised or have you got that far?

Randy

[MadAustringer]

Thanks for the good wishes, Randy! I am leaning towards getting a passage Red Tail, or Coop for this season and then releasing her or him in the spring as I am strongly thinking of getting an early clutch Parent Reared Gos or Harris next fall. Alternately I have considered doing the McDermott Imprinting method on a Gos or Coop as I did something "similar" by dint of accident and luck when I was I kid and had pretty good success.

I have a fear of somehow failing to make a successful job of imprinting this time around, and being committed to a crazy monster bird for the rest of it's life. I know I can produce a real nice game hawk from a PR or Passage, and so I will probably stick to one of those and just play it safe.

I moved to the California Central Coast from Southern California last year and the amount of feather that is available to hunt here makes me shy away from the Red Tail a bit. I love Reds for taking Jack though. They are great Jack Hawks and if I had not moved from the desert I would be planning to get another passage hen Red for sure. Slope soaring in the hilly desert is/was the ultimate in Red Tailing for me. But the Central Coast just screams for an Accipiter style hunt to me.

[chamokane]

To answer your question, longwings hold no special appeal for me as a hunting partner (but they are cool ans heck), unlike shortwings and broadwings which really have always completely turned me on. After I hear back from F&G and I know what my options are, I will start thinking about which exact species and sex of bird to start building perches and facilities for.

What are you flying right now?

Two Peregrines and a Redtail. They're all birds that I've had for a while.

[MadAustringer]

do you run a dog with the Peregrines? What breed? How 'bout with the Tail? I have worked field trial dogs, but never even seen a dog work under a Hawk. Very interested in it.

[chamokane]

do you run a dog with the Peregrines? What breed? How 'bout with the Tail? I have worked field trial dogs, but never even seen a dog work under a Hawk. Very interested in it.

I have two Pointers that do pretty well under the falcons. I used to have an English Setter and a Prairie Falcon that hunted well together.

I used to have a couple of Jack Russel Terriers that did a good job with the Redtail and a HH on Cottontails, Snowshoe Hair, and pheasant, but they got old and died. I have a young Jagdterrier that I want to try with the Redtail, but I've been in the hospital too much lately to get much done. I'm feeling pretty good now so maybe this fall, if the rabbits are there, I can get him going.

If you've done trials, that should give you a good start on working a bird dog with a hawk.

[MadAustringer]

If you've done trials, that should give you a good start on working a bird dog with a hawk.

I hope so. But I just have mental pictures of my dog eating my hawk the first time I am far away from the kill. I have an idea of how to train the dog to respect the Hawk on the kill. But I ran dogs for Hanson Kennels, and they had top dog for years. Their young dogs would occasionally do something embarrassing, like eating the bird they should be pointing right in front of the Judge. That kind of accidental disobedience could be fatal to my Hawk, rather than just my ego...

Perhaps I should think smaller than a pointer, like a Jack Russel. That way I only have to worry about the Hawk eating the dog... But that is not very comforting ether for some reason....

I bet I am just being a worry wort. But that is me. I think one of the things that I love about falconry is all the worrying I get to do!

[chamokane]

I hope so. But I just have mental pictures of my dog eating my hawk the first time I am far away from the kill. I have an idea of how to train the dog to respect the Hawk on the kill. But I ran dogs for Hanson Kennels, and they had top dog for years. Their young dogs would occasionally do something embarrassing, like eating the bird they should be pointing right in front of the Judge. That kind of accidental disobedience could be fatal to my Hawk, rather than just my ego...

Perhaps I should think smaller than a pointer, like a Jack Russel. That way I only have to worry about the Hawk eating the dog... But that is not very comforting ether for some reason....

I bet I am just being a worry wort. But that is me. I think one of the things that I love about falconry is all the worrying I get to do!

I think you'll find that a trained falconry dog is not very likely to harm a hawk. In the mind of the dog, the hawk is quite different from a game bird. I train the bird dogs to be steady to wing and stoop and then to stay put until I get the falcon on the glove and hooded. Then I call the dog and they approach with caution. I usually have to go get the male Pointer because, after a flight, he refuses to move until I go tap him on the head. A terrier might be more likely to try to rob the hawk of a kill.

[MadAustringer]

I think you'll find that a trained falconry dog is not very likely to harm a hawk. In the mind of the dog, the hawk is quite different from a game bird. I train the bird dogs to be steady to wing and stoop and then to stay put until I get the falcon on the glove and hooded. Then I call the dog and they approach with caution. I usually have to go get the male Pointer because, after a flight, he refuses to move until I go tap him on the head. A terrier might be more likely to try to rob the hawk of a kill.

I think I would have more confidence in the dog if I trained it similar to the way you describe rather than having the dog rush ahead of me to the hawk and kill.

My dream team is a pointer or two, a horse, and an Accipiter of some kind or a Harris. Plus me, of course. But I feel that what I need in order to really take things to the next level is a dog.


I was sorry to hear that you have been in and out of the hospital and I sure hope you do not have to go back for a damn long time!

Are there any books specifically aimed at training falconry dogs rather than gun or trial dogs?

[chamokane]

I think I would have more confidence in the dog if I trained it similar to the way you describe rather than having the dog rush ahead of me to the hawk and kill.

My dream team is a pointer or two, a horse, and an Accipiter of some kind or a Harris. Plus me, of course. But I feel that what I need in order to really take things to the next level is a dog.


I was sorry to hear that you have been in and out of the hospital and I sure hope you do not have to go back for a damn long time!

Are there any books specifically aimed at training falconry dogs rather than gun or trial dogs?

I don't know what your hunting grounds are like or what type of game birds you have the most of, but if you don't need a dog that hunts real wide, you might consider a Britney Spaniel. There are some pretty small ones and I have seen some good ones.

I don't know of a book that specifically addresses training a pointing dog for falconry, but I would think there must be one. I think any method that produces a dog that is steady to wing and shot would be fine.

[MadAustringer]

I don't know what your hunting grounds are like or what type of game birds you have the most of, but if you don't need a dog that hunts real wide, you might consider a Britney Spaniel. There are some pretty small ones and I have seen some good ones.

Wow, I did not even consider a Britney Spaniel! I bet that would do the trick nicely. I have loved flying shortwings from the fist since I was a kid, and I like close intimate slips... So perhaps a Brit is the dog fpor my family. Weimerieners will always have a special place in my heart because of the good times I had running those dogs for Hansen Kennels, and I was thinking of a Wiemy first of all, or a Visla, perhaps a GSP, but I must admit that the Britneys were unfairly left off my list.

I love to watch other folks work longwings and I think of longwinging as the pinnacle of falconry, but I do not want one for myself. I still talk about birds I have seen in sky trials like other folks talk about their favorite major league sports heroes. Kinda weird, huh?

I don't know of a book that specifically addresses training a pointing dog for falconry, but I would think there must be one. I think any method that produces a dog that is steady to wing and shot would be fine.

Then I should be in good shape. Tom Hansen, his brother Gordie, and Tom's son Nick, all taught me as well or better than anyone else who runs Wiemies at Trials could have ever done. (Tom Hansen's dogs have won more championships than anyone has a right to ever win.) Still will keep my eyes peeled for a book though.

As for what game I have around here, well I have only moved to California's Central Coast a little over a year ago, but I have been looking around, and so far I have seen a whole lot of California quail, and doves galore. I here that there is plenty of duck about half an hour or less up the highway from where I am at and I am excited about that, as Ducks were uncommon in the desert were I lived previously.

Pheasant, Grouse, and such, I am not sure about having enough numbers locally available for me to plan on hunting regularly, but I am still unsure as yet because I have yet to properly tap into the local hunting community. ( To date, I have spent all my free time getting set finacially and time wise for a hawk...but I have gained permission at several good size farms to hunt pest birds and mammals to my heart's content, and Quail + Doves in limited numbers.)

Mammal wise, we seem to have more than our fair sare of squirrels, raccoons, skunks and cottontails. Seemingly in that order. I do not like the Idea of hunting squirrel at all, even though they seem to be ridiculously abundant(like sparrows in a McDonald's parking lot!) and the Red tails seem to eat them as a staple. I have not seen a Jack in all the time I have been here and I do not think they are very prevalent but I guess I could be wrong.

I have been trying to locate local falconers but so far I have been unsuccessful. I will be sending in my membership renewal to the Cal Hawking Club and the club's updated roster should be a big help in that department. Once I get in touch with the locals, then I will have a better idea of just what game is escaping my notice.

My sincerest thanks for all the outstanding advice. it means a lot.