Quote Originally Posted by keitht View Post
That's interesting Geoff. I've never been to Washington so I can't comment. This certainly has not been the case in Wyoming. (Different logging practices perhaps?) I have seen a great many of my goshawk territories destroyed by logging in Wyoming. Most of them will be uninhabitable for future goses in my lifetime and probably in my children's lifetime. Now with the widespread devastation caused by beetles in the West, it would not surprise me at all if Goshawk take from some of the western states such as Wyoming will be shut down.

I've been amazed that this has been as under reported as it has been.
I dont think its significatnly different logging practices. It may be due to a different environment, but I doubt it.

There is a difference between forageing habbitat and nesting habbitat, even during the nesting season. Washington has both temperate rainfrorest and the dry temperate forests more common in the rest of the mountain west - habitats very similar to what you have in Wyoming, although some of the treee species differ.

I see them foraging on the edges of clearcuts, because their prey species thrive in the open habbitat. Forest Grouse, squirrel, rabbits/hares, bandtailed pigeon. These all do better in edge habitat or even in the open meadows of a clear clut. And when I say I see them, please keep in mind that these not only goshawks we are refering to, but while ones. "The Phantom of the forest."

Of course never see them nesting in the clearcuts, or even close to them. However, it dosnt take a very big stand of mature trees for them to nest. I have seen some in as little as 5 acres of mature stage trees surrounded by a large tract of tiny second growth (it was actually old growth, but very young).

Once the clearcut has grown back into a dense stand of young trees it is unsuitable for either foraging or nesting. In the temperate rainforest habbitat, this occurs in less than a decade from natural seeding even if the forest is not actively replanted. I spoke to a manager from a private forest company who told me that after a cut they plant 1,000 trees per acre, and ten years later they do a thining cut to bring it back down to that level from the 10-15,000 trees per acre that grow back in.

But once that dense stand has grown to maturity it is useful for both again.

I have roamed through the dry rockies a lot. I lived in Utah for 15 years and spent every possible moment in the forested mountains. I think that you are dramatically overestimating how long it takes for a stand of trees to grow back to being suitable for goshawks. It certainly wont happen overnight, but it will happen in a few decades.

I have been in dense stands of mature lodgepole pines. Very little lives there, except the pines, once you get more than a few yards in from the edge of the trees. They are deserts of trees.

I must add, however, that I moved to the rainforest before my passion for goshawks blossomed.

As for the beetle - they are definately a menace, and one that seems to be increasing (I have watched that one first hand from the early 80s to the mind 90s and a bit beyond). I am certain the goshawk will survive them. It may be as simple for them as moving into stands of aspen.